Chi Discussion Forum

Went on a very easy form run and didn’t do so well.  10 minute miles, 4.25 miles.  My calves are killing me and I felt like I jarred my knees and legs on every step.  I tried to focus on my lower abs and leveling my hips along with lifting my heels.  I obviously didn’t do it very successfully.  At times I felt as if I was landing on my toes.  Any suggestions, or has anyone else been through this?

Hi Hilltopper-

My guess is you might need to slow down and body sense. When we first learn the Chi Running technique, the emphasis is on form, not pace or speed. You need to ease back in order to successfully body sense. I would also suggest working on one focus at a time. Start with keeping your core engaged - not so much it creates tension elsewhere, but enough to stabilize your pelvis. Keep your posture tall - like you have a balloon attached to the crown of your head - and your chin in a neutral position. This is all referred to as your C shape (see page 79 in the Chi Running book). Try totally relaxing your core for contrast sake, then engage again. You might notice how hard you land when your core isn’t engaged. As you become more adept at sensing what that feels like, you can start adding in other focuses. Remember the rule of gradual progress!

You also might be over trying with regard to how high you are lifting your heels for what pace you’re at. Check this video out to see what it looks like in different gears (or speeds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgueZ4FcsbQ .

When you start out, your stride length should be fairly short, and your heels should be coming up to where your shins are at about 45 degrees angle to the ground. Think only of the one-legged posture stance with each step, feeling your column from your shoulder to your ankles, with your midfoot at the bottom. Going this slow allows you 1) to body sense where your alignment is and 2) to relax. It sets the conditions for the energy to flow. As your body warms up, you will naturally pick up a little speed. Just keep sensing.

And lastly - try only going for two miles instead of four, or only for as long as it feels good. When you get tired, you lose form and in the end, you only remember how bad you feel, not what worked in the first place. Again, as you get more adept, you can hold that good form longer, and your mileage can increase organically.

Re-read chapter four in the Chi Running book, and also check out the next chapter, How to Learn Chi Running. And please keep us posted on how it goes. Good luck - you will get there!

Thanks for advice!  Strangely enough I have this relaxed warm feeling in my legs this evening.  The calf pain I had is gone and I have a peaceful calm over me that feels fantastic and I cant wait to get right out there tomorrow.  Ill focus on my core only tomorrow and stay slow.  10minmile pace was hard to do but ill keep in gear one and stick with it.  I have yet to feel the sense of a non-jarring yet but ill take your word for it.

Great to hear! Let us know how the run goes and any questions or issues that arise.

Laura Houston
Certified Chi Running and Chi Walking Instructor
Seattle WA

I wouldn’t say that I woke up with my legs being fully “fresh” per say, but without a doubt there is no IT Band pain whatsoever or knee pain from my old injury.  Slight, and I mean slight soreness in both calves, but not what I expected which was gonna be severe soreness.  Later today I’m gonna go out for a couple of miles as suggested and focus just on engaging my core.  The takeaway from what you wrote was to contrast relaxing core, then engaging core. 

By the way I started with the metronome on my run yesterday, but then switched to music because that is what I’m used to and really enjoy.  I can’t say for certain, but would music be considered distracting when trying to learn the art of Chi Running?

Hi Hilltopper

I’m guessing by now you went out and ran a couple miles? How did it go?

As for music being a distraction, yes, especially right now when you need to hear your body. Use the metronome instead of music. For some people, it takes a while to get used to running with the metronome on all the time. An option is to turn it off (after a while) for a few minutes and then back on, to check in, so to speak. Personally, I like it on all the time. With music, you can be running along and a song can come on that causes an adrenaline rush, and before you know it, you are over striding and landing hard, and then your calves are going WTH are you doing???

So try leaving the music at home, at least for most of your runs. That steady constant cadence is a big part of what helps you keep an efficient form.

No music, metronome only.  It really helped pace me and I totally understand it’s significance.  I ran a nice loop that is 4.25 miles, with lots of hills.  You literally can’t go “hill-less” where we live unless you drive somewhere.  On the hills though I just put in granny gear and kept my HR the same as flat or downhills.  The focus and body sense for me was leveling my hips.  It is very easy in front of a mirror, but it feels awkward when I run.  I feel like I’m shoving my butt forward and like my back is curved outwards.  I felt myself however during the run and its not, it just feels that way. 

Good news I have no noticeable calf pain or any other pain for that matter.  I have an old basketball injury in my left knee that is there, but no different from when I’m walking around.  All in all a most successful run I’d say.  By leveling my hips I guess I expected to “feel” something really cool or “chi-like” but I really don’t at all, just awkwardness.  The take away I suppose is that Friday’s run yielded calf pain during the run and for about a couple hours afterwards, but today I have no pain at all.

So glad to hear you have no calf pain today! And I know what you mean about hills - same deal here in Seattle. Hills are our friends; at least that’s the mantra of most running groups around here.

As for leveling the pelvis - be careful you don’t “over-level” giving you a totally flat back. You want to maintain a neutral spine, so I’m concerned it feels like you are tucking your butt in. Think of it more like you are zipping up a pair of tight jeans. You want to engage the low abs enough to stabilize the pelvis so it doesn’t rock up and down, and you don’t bend at the waist. But you want your gluteus max (butt) to be relaxed so that it doesn’t restrict your leg swing. Re-read pages 71-75 in the Chi Running book to get a sense of what I’m talking about. There are also some great exercises to help you feel and isolate those low ab muscles.

Keep up the good work!! And let us know how it’s going!

Laura Houston
Certified Chi Running and Chi Walking Instructor
Seattle WA

3 miles on the treadmill which isn’t ideal but all I could really do with work and family.  I did some tests to engage core and then run with relaxed core and I really could see the difference in the jarring effect.  It became easier to engage core without thinking about it.  The only times I strayed from focus is when I tried to do some solid breathing.  I find it hard to engage core and belly breathe at the same time, but I guess it takes practice.  What I did notice is that the times where I grabbed a towel or some water, my heart rate decreased each time.  The only thing I can think of is that I relaxed and my stride increased which is how I used to do it?  All in all my HR is up quite a bit but I feel no soreness at all.  All in all a good form session.

Inside knee pain has fallen upon me.  Could be a case of too much too fast or flying down hills.  Gonna rest till weekendand slow it down even more.  I had a 10k race two weekends ago followed by an 8 mile run the next day.  Then read Chi Running and started training.  Classic case of TMTF.  Ill check in soon as I have a half in May and need ti really work on form.

Hi Hilltopper

Sounds definitely like too much too soon. It’s really tempting to go out with your new found success and see how far you can take it. But what happens is your old habits creep back in because your body has not had time to fully incorporate the new habits. Work on form first, then distance, and let speed happen as you get more efficient.

So step back, take a little time off, let the inflammation on the knee settle down, and then remember the rule of Gradual Progress! You might even want to check out the new Chi Walk-Run DVD and program - it’s awesome for coming back from an injury AND establishing good form in your body! Keep us posted on how you are doing!

Laura Houston
Certified Chi Running and Chi Walking Instructor
Seattle WA

Thanks again.  Tested knee not ready yet maybe Saturday.  Lesson one is praticing one-legged posture right? 
I guess I’m confused on how the book is laid out.  What should I do first?  Practice engaging core or my one kegged posture?

Hi Hilltopper

Engaging your core is part of your posture stance, so find that ‘C’ shape, or aligned posture BEFORE you start to run. Then feel your feet and fall (slightly) from there. As you run, keep your stride length pretty short and feel your aligned column each time your foot comes down. It’s like doing a one legged posture stance in motion - one OLPS after another. To play with what it feels like not to have your core engaged, try totally relaxing your low abs during this, and feel what that feels like. Then engage enough to feel the stability return. As you warm up and, after checking in with that posture, slightly increase your lean, and check again with your core to make sure you don’t lose the integrity. Think ‘relaxed yet substantial.’

Keep us posted on how it goes!

Laura Houston
Certified Chi Running and Chi Walking Instructor
Seattle WA

Great slow run today.  I’m starting to get the hang of body sensing quite a bit now.  If I feel discomfort anywhere in my body, which for me is either knee, calves, or quads, I focus back on core and do my best to relax my legs.  It works the best for me to not concentrate on my legs at all.  On mile 3 for about a half mile before another hill(uggggh) I had a moment of true joy.  I felt nothing really, just incredibly relaxed and comfortable.  Once again progress, and quite literally no knee pain other than an ache or two while I was getting started.  The OLP focus was better, but definitely nothing I’ve gotten the hang of.  I’m taking Sun and Mon off.  I’ll keep you posted.

Body sense check-in:  slight discomfort upper glutius, slight fatigue quads.  Left MCL a tad sore but not like last week. 

Action plan for next run:  relax glutius, focus on lower abs, check column every 5 mins, relax upper and lower legs.

Sounds like a plan to me. You want to engage the low abs enough to stabilize the pelvis. It sounds like you are getting the hang of it and sensing where you need to let go and relax. It’s a continual process, and one that you get more proficient at with consistent practice. Great job! Keep us posted!

Laura Houston
Certified Chi Running and Chi Walking Instructor
Seattle WA

I’m on my third time reading through the book.  It becomes easier to understand as I go.  Lesson two is the lean which ill practuce Saturday.  Got video taped at Roadrunner and found out I overpronate. I’m part of a rare breed that has high arches but still overpronates.  Got my Brooks Trance 11 stability shoes and took them for a test spin and felt great.  Quite literally zero discomfort.  I don’t feel a lean yet to be honest so I’m gonna do some exercises in front of the mirror before I go out.

Hi Hilltopper -

Glad you found shoes you like. I also tend to over pronate and I have fairly high arches, and I used to wear the Trance. But as I incorporated Chi Running more and more, and corrected that pronation by rotating my leg inward at the hip, I found I needed less and less - especially as my adductors and rotators got stronger. I actually started practicing Chi Running when I wore highly structured orthotics in stability shoes! Now I prefer (and find more comfortable) less padding, less structure, and lower to no drop (I have arthritic toes that do not like heels and I suffered through joint pain far too long. ). That said, you are very wise in going with what your body wants at the moment, so work on your form and keep listening to it.

As for the lean - it’s very subtle and easy to overdo. When you practice it in front of the mirror (which is a GREAT idea), notice how much you’re leaning. It only takes one inch of lean to get going in first gear! And only an additional one inch for each successive gear. Make the lean happen from your ankles, not your waist (and don’t lead with your chin). Practice against the wall (get one shoe length away from the wall, put your hands up to keep from bumping your nose). Always check in with your posture first, then feel your feet on the floor nice and even, and then relax your ankles and fall. You should feel like the bottoms of your feet are like a table that you want level on all four corners - i.e., don’t let your heels come up as you lean against the wall. This will help relax the ankles and lower legs.

When you lean to take off (without the wall), as soon as you feel a shift in pressure under the balls of your feet, that’s about when you pick up your feet. Staying too long on the feet causes ‘leading with your chin’ and can make the foot landing feel heavy. In running, if you feel like you’re gripping with your toes, you may be leaning too much. Or if you feel like you have to push off with each step, you may be leaning too little. Keep looking for the sweet spot - and play with it. Have fun over leaning to feel that and also under leaning to feel the brakes come on. Then, like Goldilocks, find the lean that is JUST right for you.

Keep us posted!

Laura Houston
Certified Chi Running and Chi Walking Instructor
Seattle WA

Thanks for the note and awesome advice.  I was reading the lesson about pelvic rotation and knew almost instantly that my legs swing out, and then back in because of a lack of rotation.  I can feel it.  I have minimized the jarring through hip stsbilization, but I know that pelvic rotation will be key for me to:

1. Have legs swing to the rear
2. Have lower body moving all in same direction.
3. Further reduce jarring and up and down movement.

I have bowed legs and I always thought they were the cause of me not being able to feel like legs and feet were moving in a straight line.  Its not.  Pelvic rotation is.  I am in essence getting in my own way.  Can I get a big “Ahh Hah” from the crowd?

Hee hee! There needs to be an emoticon that represents “Ah-Ha!”

Check out the body looseners and try the hip circles - the one where the knees move in a circle 180 degrees out of sync. Danny had to do 3000 of these a day (!) for three months to help correct his bow legs. That’s quite a lot and takes a lot of dedication (and time) but you can do them almost anywhere (bus, grocery line, bathroom line - that makes people offer to let you go ahead of them! ha ha!). Anyway, it’s a good way to loosen up tight ligaments etc in the pelvic area where the femur head and hip socket come together.

Laura Houston
Certified Chi Running and Chi Walking Instructor
Seattle WA

Tried the lean on a tempo run on treadmill today and it went very well.  I leaned too far and felt myself catching myself with my shins, leaned too far back and felt myself starting to stride too far.  The middle spot was quite comfortable and I think I had been doing it all along, but it felt very upright.  I really think that I’m having a hard time engaging core, but keeping my butt and and back loose, very hard for me.  Not sure if men are predisposed to have a harder time with this, but for me it really is.  I also had glimpses of picking up my ankles and letting my feet dangle which felt good too.  Good run, more to learn Saturday.